PART 04 - Where it all Started

[Suck My BRAAAM]

Source please.

I won't do your research for you. All those names you ignored for a second time are all you need to know. Either you are too lazy to read or you are purposely trying to be annoying to derail the thread.

[phil_l]

For the record I never said Hz made interstellar alone I said he made the main theme alone ( Day one )
And there is everything of the soundtrack in that track ( even part of cornfield chase )

About « stay » and the glorious ending .. it is pure Zimmer
Just listen to science and religion from Angels and demons and you got the blue print and the additional writers are not the same :-)

[DarkestShadow]

Source please.

I won't do your research for you. All those names you ignored for a second time are all you need to know. Either you are too lazy to read or you are purposely trying to be annoying to derail the thread.

You won't do research for me? I didn't expect that. I expected that you already HAD DONE research and came out with the fact that there are 3 additional composers. Haha, but apparently the "fact" came first... and you would have to do research to support it. Lol.
And I didn't ignore the other names (arrangers, orchestrators...? Random names of music persons that have something to with Interstellar? yea...), I was just curious where you got the information specifically about additional composers from, because I can't find anything substantial about additional composers. Irrespective of how much those arrangers may have contributed - I want the composers. Who are they? You must know that without doing research, otherwise you actually lied/guessed. The intellectually honest order of things is not: I know that there are 3 additional composers and then I do the research to support it. It should be the other way around.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_(soundtrack)

[Raph]

Isn't it paradoxical?

Zimmer is great at writing themes, and in the same time, he states that modern films reject themes (I understand the movie industry transformation over the last decade back up this statement). He did write memorable themes until the beginning of the 2000s.

My opinion is that he watered down this thematic writing to mere contours he then elongates or shortens, diswraps (particularly obvious in Interstellar, Inception, Man of Steel, even the Batman trilogy). And we can acknowledge he does that with talent, and it's possible his assistants are way behind on this matter.

But I don't think these considerations are the focus point here, @phil-l. Headshot didn't state HZ was ungifted or a complete fraud. He even acknowledges he's a great sound designer. He said that HZ isn't a great "traditional" orchestrator. It's something HZ himself states. But that's fine by him: he wants to move on, to break the rules, to discover new territories to explore. Another point Headshot sheds light on, is that HZ has a lot of assistants, and it's difficult to distinguish what's really by him alone. It's also a point HZ emphasizes on: his work is teamwork, he asserts.

So, I don't understand how this came so far. Maybe fan-worshipping, maybe a bit of arrogance from Headshot, but concerning the sole matter on the table, I really can't see the problem!

[phil_l]

Raphael, I don't see the freakin' problem too!

HZ never stated anywhere he was going to be the next John Williams or Gustav Holst.
His music never truly changed in 25 years , thematically and harmonically ( just listen to Black Rain the action theme then to The Dark Knight .. 25 years after , same touch, same style but different sound )
Sure he may have taken advantage of some orchestrators / additional arrangers, but these guys were rewarded ENOUGH. Just having one Hans Zimmer score on your bucket list is enough to find you work for the next 4 years. So who's taking advantage? win-win situation.

I think the main issue here is : Headshot and his friends can't stand the current state of film music. Fine . Not every score has to be recorded in abbey road with the london symphony...not every score has to be orchestral, or small orchestra, or acoustic. Not every score has to follow the rules of orchestration and "good writing" that you learn in music school. You're sad because nobody cares about these scores anymore, I can understand it, because I love these film scores. But look at the movies now ? You cannot score the average movie like you scored the next Star Wars . You gotta live with that buddy.

I cannot imagine how much music you could have done with the time you spent creating and writing on this forum. IMO, it's a bit pathological to do what you do Headshot. I've worked in psychology ( I dont create music )

[Best Retards]

Phil I think we don't read the same stuff here.
HZ has talent, no one doubts about it.
He knows how to drive a project, he's a hell of a contractor, may have good taste in music, changed the way music score was produced.
He brings something to the table OK.
Now there is a thin line you do not want to cross when you know what you're capable of and not.
The problem here is limitations.
Hans is limited by his knowledge in couple musical fields, is it a problem today ? No you have additionnal composers to do the job, everyone is 'ok' with that.
But does it give Hans the right to make these guys work his own ?

I would never claim to be the creator of a whole score and every details included in a genre I just barely know.
It's just stupid.
The only reason to act like this is either frustration or he's a compulsive liar.

What happened here with Samy is not anecdotic.

If someone like Zimmer is able to say what he said, then what do you teach to the new generation ?

"break the rules, don't study, do whatever you want, and you'll be able to do scores like the final game"

just wrong

[Suck My BRAAAM]

Raphael, I don't see the freakin' problem too!

HZ never stated anywhere he was going to be the next John Williams or Gustav Holst.
His music never truly changed in 25 years , thematically and harmonically ( just listen to Black Rain the action theme then to The Dark Knight .. 25 years after , same touch, same style but different sound )
Sure he may have taken advantage of some orchestrators / additional arrangers, but these guys were rewarded ENOUGH. Just having one Hans Zimmer score on your bucket list is enough to find you work for the next 4 years. So who's taking advantage? win-win situation.

I think the main issue here is : Headshot and his friends can't stand the current state of film music. Fine . Not every score has to be recorded in abbey road with the london symphony...not every score has to be orchestral, or small orchestra, or acoustic. Not every score has to follow the rules of orchestration and "good writing" that you learn in music school. You're sad because nobody cares about these scores anymore, I can understand it, because I love these film scores. But look at the movies now ? You cannot score the average movie like you scored the next Star Wars . You gotta live with that buddy.

I cannot imagine how much music you could have done with the time you spent creating and writing on this forum. IMO, it's a bit pathological to do what you do Headshot. I've worked in psychology ( I dont create music )

It's really hard to have a serious discussion when you keep trying to turn this into something different.


The sole purpose of Headshot videos is to point Zimmer's bs regarding A League of their Own and how unfairly he was treated at VIC for asking questions.

Create your own thread if you want to discuss the current state of film music and all that jazz.

And not remotely cool to take this low jab at Headshot for defending his honor. You may not agree with him but there's nothing pathological about his behavior. Maybe you are projecting? You are the one who's clearly obsessed about the guy and keeps coming back with these cheap shots to discredit him.

[phil_l]

"But does it give Hans the right to make these guys work his own ?
"

So during the end credits rolls , Hans Zimmer has to credit everybody ?

"Music by Hans Zimmer, Jim Dooley, Klaus Badelt, Steve Mazzaro, Andrew K, Bruce Fowler"

[phil_l]

Raphael, I don't see the freakin' problem too!

HZ never stated anywhere he was going to be the next John Williams or Gustav Holst.
His music never truly changed in 25 years , thematically and harmonically ( just listen to Black Rain the action theme then to The Dark Knight .. 25 years after , same touch, same style but different sound )
Sure he may have taken advantage of some orchestrators / additional arrangers, but these guys were rewarded ENOUGH. Just having one Hans Zimmer score on your bucket list is enough to find you work for the next 4 years. So who's taking advantage? win-win situation.

I think the main issue here is : Headshot and his friends can't stand the current state of film music. Fine . Not every score has to be recorded in abbey road with the london symphony...not every score has to be orchestral, or small orchestra, or acoustic. Not every score has to follow the rules of orchestration and "good writing" that you learn in music school. You're sad because nobody cares about these scores anymore, I can understand it, because I love these film scores. But look at the movies now ? You cannot score the average movie like you scored the next Star Wars . You gotta live with that buddy.

I cannot imagine how much music you could have done with the time you spent creating and writing on this forum. IMO, it's a bit pathological to do what you do Headshot. I've worked in psychology ( I dont create music )

It's really hard to have a serious discussion when you keep trying to turn this into something different.


The sole purpose of Headshot videos is to point Zimmer's bs regarding A League of their Own and how unfairly he was treated at VIC for asking questions.

Create your own thread if you want to discuss the current state of film music and all that jazz.

And not remotely cool to take this low jab at Headshot for defending his honor. You may not agree with him but there's nothing pathological about his behavior. Maybe you are projecting? You are the one who's clearly obsessed about the guy and keeps coming back with these cheap shots to discredit him.

Sorry but making a forum , create thousands of videos and even take some extracts from star wars, recording his own voice , put Hans Zimmer face into a video montage... if it's not pathological, I dont see what it is. Still I think it's kind of funny and entertaining.

[Raph]

True that if you want to make a clear pattern, create a link to a style, an era, a well-definite mood, you have to go by the book (or you'll end like me: relearning everything ten years later :-D ).

Also true that it's good to have some variety. I may prefer well-written pieces for orchestra, but I'm not the guy who'll cry because there is rock music in a zombie movie, or synths in Blade Runner. If the music serves the picture, then it's fine. (And then comes Verta: Zimmer lacks a sense of narrative structure in the Batman trilogy. Not a reproach concerning the nomenclatura he's chosen. If you criticize a score, criticize it as a score: how does it serve the movie?)

We may all agree on that.

But back to the topic: they were fanboys, Zimmer had a bad memory or lied to them out of some kind of fatuity or didn't want to disappoint (who knows?), Headshot was a bit rude in his first post, and when the fanboys insulted him massively, Headshot kept being rude, but he was then trying to defend himself, so it was a bit more justified IMO.

Without the audience, if it was just Zimmer and Headshot, I am positively sure it would have been a 5-minute conversation ending peacefully, because Zimmer can reply politely to rudeness. The presence of an audience can make people do stupid things. It's the whole point of trash TV. And I agree there shouldn't be this kind of trash TV schemes in VI-C. It was already too late in Zimmer's mind to turn back when Headshot sent private message. Kind of an Orpheus syndrom: the thing had already gone too far.

[Headshot]

IMO, it's a bit pathological to do what you do Headshot. I've worked in psychology ( I dont create music )

Sorry but making a forum , create thousands of videos and even take some extracts from star wars, recording his own voice , put Hans Zimmer face into a video montage... if it's not pathological, I dont see what it is. Still I think it's kind of funny and entertaining.

You contradict yourself in the same message. That video has no other purpose than the fun and teasing, there is nothing pathological here.
In the exact same way, there is nothing pathological with responding to a huge amount of insults and nonsense.

Don't make personal attack, Argue with Arguments.

Don't try to know if I'm crazy, jealous, hateful, arrogant or narcissistic, just focus on the subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrMiFnjO2Ko

[Best Retards]

"But does it give Hans the right to make these guys work his own ?
"

So during the end credits rolls , Hans Zimmer has to credit everybody ?

"Music by Hans Zimmer, Jim Dooley, Klaus Badelt, Steve Mazzaro, Andrew K, Bruce Fowler"

You still don't see the point.
Let's take it that way :

Let's imagine I see an action movie with a score of full Electro Dubstep.
Then at the end credit roll I see : Music by John Williams and some additionnal orchestrators/musicians

Years later John says on a forum "yeah I remember that action movie, I wrote every single notes of the score"

What common sense would shout out ?
"that's impossible"

What did headshot say to HZ ? he didn't believe that HZ wrote every single notes on this movie "A league of their own"

What's wrong with that ?

Don't you see the problem ? Giving end credits as an excuse for ego problem is wrong

[DarkestShadow]

"But does it give Hans the right to make these guys work his own ?
"

So during the end credits rolls , Hans Zimmer has to credit everybody ?

"Music by Hans Zimmer, Jim Dooley, Klaus Badelt, Steve Mazzaro, Andrew K, Bruce Fowler"

Let's imagine I see an action movie with a score of full Electro Dubstep.
Then at the end credit roll I see : Music by John Williams and some additionnal orchestrators/musicians

Years later John says on a forum "yeah I remember that action movie, I wrote every single notes of the score"

What common sense would shout out ?
"that's impossible"

Ahem? Would that be "common sense"? Not in my book... I can't know it for sure so I would never rule it out. I would be surprised - that's the end of it.

[phil_l]

I think you already made your point Headshot, thousand times. But as HZ doesnt want to come here and debate with you, we can speak here
all together for years ... we will never hear what the guy has to say about the subject. That is, yeah he lied a bit when talking about The Final Game, he didnt orchestrate all himself. BUT ... who here think HZ can orchestrate a track ALONE ? in the traditional sense of "orchestration" . Nobody


what do you want, apologies from HZ on a public forum ? Never you'll get anything from him anymore..

It's too bad because with your talent you would have been able to work in RCP or in hollywood, but not you're completely discredited, both you and your friend Strickland btw. And godfather Hans Zemmer has the power in hollywood to discredit anyone : Hello, Klaus Badelt... who never worked on a major hollywood movie since he sued Zimmer...^^

And yeah consider that as personal attacks if you want, fair enough. The way you attacked HZ on VI-C was irrespectful.

[phil_l]

"But does it give Hans the right to make these guys work his own ?
"

So during the end credits rolls , Hans Zimmer has to credit everybody ?

"Music by Hans Zimmer, Jim Dooley, Klaus Badelt, Steve Mazzaro, Andrew K, Bruce Fowler"

You still don't see the point.
Let's take it that way :

Let's imagine I see an action movie with a score of full Electro Dubstep.
Then at the end credit roll I see : Music by John Williams and some additionnal orchestrators/musicians

Years later John says on a forum "yeah I remember that action movie, I wrote every single notes of the score"

What common sense would shout out ?
"that's impossible"

What did headshot say to HZ ? he didn't believe that HZ wrote every single notes on this movie "A league of their own"

What's wrong with that ?

Don't you see the problem ? Giving end credits as an excuse for ego problem is wrong

I see no big problem. What is important for me is the final work, if it moves me, or if it doesnt move me. What's behind, I couldnt care less honestly!

But I think we should listen to the original mockup. Problem is we will never hear it because of how Headshot acted.